Re: SAVE THIS VIDEO!!! (the subject is death, this is on-the-mark, watch it all)

This guy is a guy I have personally gone against on other issues, but on this subject he is *directly* on-the-mark. The subject is where did Jesus go when He 'descended into hell', as the Apostles' Creed says, and, by extension, the subject is where do human beings go at death. The way Wilson here defines everything *from the Bible* is absolutely clear and on-the-mark. You have to listen to it. Take notes:

http://www.canonwired.com/featured/hell-or-hades/

And note at the end where they end with a question, and he says: I have to say I don't know. That is where recurrence comes into play.

This is really a 10 minute video you need to save. There is nothing he says in it that is off-the-mark, and on this subject there is so much confusion from different theological sources that is it valuable to have it explained clearly and concisely like this. - C.

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Slight addendum: when I said recurrence comes in at the end where he says "I don't know", I just listened to it again, and there he is talking about regenerated souls with God in heaven, so recurrence has ceased for them. But as for the unregenerate in Hades, there is where there is room biblically for recurrence. Even for people on either side of the chasm I think. AND REMEMBER: This is not saying beings 'go up' and they 'go down', i.e. in and out of Hades. Remember, we can't perceive time other than linearly. So thinking in 'revolution' is a limitation we have, and it doesn't describe recurrence. Recurrence is *living time*, like a sphere, or cosmos of time that is more than one dimensional *and that includes Hades* (at least, one has to speculate, beyond a certain point of experience). So that *means* as you are *in Hades* you are *also* in all parts of your living time. And *crossing that chasm* in Hades is the boundary between unregenerate and regenerated. *This is why you catch hell.* Literally. - C.

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Another slight addendum: I'm needlessly confusing myself. After Jesus' triumph there is only one chamber of Hades, so there is no need to speculate about the chasm in Hades and how each side is effected by recurrence. This though makes the terror of the situation more terrible. You die unregenerate and you are in Hades *after* its been emptied of all the saints. So you're in there with all the serial murderers (just like we are here on Earth). And this is perhaps why evil in this world under the sun is so brazen and confident, because in Hades there are no saints, so the evil *knows* whether you are here, under the sun, or you are in Hades, you are in evil's domain. Unless, of course, you've been regenerated by the word and the Spirit as you stand under the sun now. In which case you will go to be with God at death, and you are with Christ in the heavenlies even now in that sense because somehow you are no longer in Hades in the long body of your living time. - C.

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The chasm you cross when you are regenerated by the word and the Spirit is you leave Hades altogether. Before you were here under the sun and you were at the same time in Hades. Now, after regeneration, you are here, and you are at the same time in heaven with Christ.

Those who are still in Hades and are here under the sun too *know* you are no longer where they still are. This is why the world hates you. This is why the devil notices you and attacks you. And this is also, in another way, why you are at war with your fallen nature (the flesh). That three-front battle.

With this in mind I think one can see that it is a gauge of our progress as regenerated beings that we sustain a negative onslaught from the world, the flesh, and the devil. It seems that if that lightens up it means we are being defeated in some way. Not pulled back into Hades, they can't do that. But neutralized and contained in our progressive sanctification. It seems - and this is depressing to say - that the most successful saints may be the ones whose lives end in martyrdom.

On the other hand, making yourself not such an easy target while at the same time using the friction of the General Law is perhaps a strategy too. Maybe the - I forget the words G. used - the wily man? - C.

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One thing that comes to me on this subject is much of the landscape of the artistic imagination deals with this underworld. Deals with the forces at work in this underworld. Not just fantasy genre (but think of Tolkein's world, 'Middle Earth'. I'm obviously not a Tolkein person, but perhaps there is double meaning in that term that even Tolkein was unaware of. Middle Earth being literally *in* the Earth. I know it doesn't mean that in Tolkein's geography, but...

Or just think of that term 'underworld' itself. Novels, movies about the underworld. The Mob, crime, murder, syndicates, vice, etc.

Go back to the Grimm's tale called the Twelve Dancing Princesses I made a reading of on that old Grimm's Tales forum. Once you see its context of being in the underworld and about death then it all comes together. Prior to seeing that context it's just psychedelic.

Wilson in that video mentions that modern Bible translators translate the name for the deepest part of Hades (Tartarus) as the Nether Gloom, or something like that. That's what I mean about the landscape of death being in the creative imagination. How many nether glooms are there in fantasy stories... And they are not depicted as being in Hades, but part of a fantastic geography still under the sun.

That phrase, by the way, in the sun, or under the sun, is biblical. It is from the book of Ecclesiastes. It actually occurs at least 30 time in the short book of Ecclesiastes. Under the sun, that is. In the King James. It refers to people alive on Earth, in the sun. Not in the underworld, Hades.

You're there now. If you're asleep in life, you're like a useful idiot in Hades now, going with the current of darkness. Once you awaken you have to be a savvy warrior.

But the practical meditation on this subject is to see the forces at work in Hades that manifest here 'under the sun.'

Also the forces at work in Heaven that also manifest here under the sun once you are regenerated. - C.